Curse

Ec]-[oMaN · Feb 20, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

I strongly prefer 8vs8 but spike builds are redundant. I'd like to see for a weekend kill count removed, and maybe max 3 of the same primary and secondary profession in a party of 8.

Alleji · Feb 20, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

I strongly prefer 8v8 and I strongly dislike the new objectives in 8v8. I've said this before in other threads, but since this is the official feedback thread, I'll post it here:

old 8v8 > 6v6 > new 8v8

But I really don't care anymore... I played 8v8 with killcount 2 nights ago and HA had 2 districts, and I played 6v6 with killcount last night and HA still had 2 districts. Since you're so adamant about not bringing back old halls, I really don't see how you can salvage it.

ksalanpang · Feb 20, 2007, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Prefer 8 vs 8 with the old alter holding format

However, some skill balance is still necessary.

Horace The Great · Feb 20, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Why is there a poll about party size and not about if people like killcount?

Vermilion · Feb 20, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Voted somewhat in favor of 8v8, mostly because thats what I'm used to. Also because I don't think GvG should be the only 8v8 outside of PvE. New 6v6 Arena weekend imo.

Thom Bangalter · Feb 20, 2007, 10:36 PM // 22:36

murderball makes 3 way maps dumb. Otherwise, gogo 8v8.

EmzEmz · Feb 20, 2007, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Strongly 8v8 but i dont want killcount

Wilhelm · Feb 20, 2007, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Get rid of the kiddie shit that's HA is based on now, if we wanted to run around like idiots capturing points we'd AB.

8 man. HA mechanics of a year ago. Simple.

Ranger Li · Feb 20, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Strongly support 8v8

Today, I went to HA. I felt like I didn't want to play, over the last week, every day when I got on I felt invigorated to play HA.

Good feeling gone : (

Winterclaw · Feb 20, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

I really think there should be a 6v6 HA and an 8v8 one so I voted for the neutral option.

Bread Fan · Feb 20, 2007, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Of course I am going to say 8v8 but I would like to ask, Why didn't Anet do a 8v8 test weekend with old mechanics? New players just got worked over by spikes since the kill count discouraged degen or balance. One other thing, Gaile why did you post a link to this poll in Riverside? People that have never stepped foot into HA will be voting...

Russell.Crowe · Feb 20, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

8v8 with new mechanics is bad (the meta is just horrid, I preferred the 6v6 meta to this crap even). 8v8 with old mechanics is ftw. If the mechanics are going to stay, then I would strongly prefer 6v6.

DreamWind · Feb 20, 2007, 11:42 PM // 23:42

I am definately for 8v8, but a few things have to happen for HA to at least have a sense of fun again.

1. Put back all maps to how they were about a year ago with some minor changes:

Underworld= 1v1 deathmatch
Burial Mounds= 1v1 deathmatch with priests leave side blocked off
Broken Tower= 1v1 altar holding/deathmatch 6 minute timer
Scarred Earth= 1v1v1v1 with added fame, or just 1v1 no added fame
Unholy Temples= 1v1 relic
Dark Chambers= 1v1 deathmatch with priests
Courtyard= 1v1v1 altar holding with priests and 8 minute timer
Sacred Temples= 1v1 relic run
Hall of Heroes= 1v1v1 Multi objective with no kill count and adding old style holding into the mix, make objectives cycle instead of being random so you don't get same objective many times

Those are my suggestions. But if we went back to exactly how the maps were a year ago I would be fine with that too.

2. Nerf spike builds into the groud with rits going first. Spike builds make halls so unfun it is not even funny. If every pure spike build in the game got nerfed I would not be crying much.

That is all I can think of for now.

coleslawdressin · Feb 20, 2007, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Even though Gaile isn't announcing it I think they are considering new maps.

New maps/balance broken skills like the ones in rit spike/do something about kill count/ keep 8v8.

If you want to have a 6v6 arena make it sealed deck because that is actually fun.

Ruricu · Feb 21, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

I strongly prefer 8v8.

However, I have to say that, like other's opinions, the killcount mechanic on Broken Tower and Courtyard kill the system. The reason I believe why is, unlike the Hall of Heroes map, Broken Tower and Courtyard have a circuit around the central altar, thus allowing teams to run around indefinently, having no reason to stay in one spot, and nothing forcing them to. This, I believe, is what greatly encourages spike builds and allows them to flourish on this map. They simply approach the target, spike, then run. In the Hall of Heroes, however, you can only run so far until you hit the back wall, and most likely crumble under the weight of one or even two teams.

fikusan · Feb 21, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

i like 8v8 because it makes sigils harder to get

that and its more monk friendly

Damus · Feb 21, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Do people even read anymore? This is what Gaile said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

The objective is to increase the fun factor and to refresh the challenges within the HA experience. With that objective in mind, the designers have made changes over the last months, including two recent "Testing Weekends."

And then 90% of the people replying on the thread want the old 8v8, the old map, and the old mechanics back. I suppose they also want the old skills back too, like the pre-nerf met shower and the pre-nerf vim. nuff said.

I, along with the great majority, am in a guild (and an alliance) that does not always have a pool of seven experienced, knowledgeable people who wants to ha. It's not even easy to find five other people to go to ha when I want to, but it's definitely easier than seven. I'm not even gonna go into pug groups. I tried pugging for the first couple of days of 8v8 and gave up. I would rather do laundry. Bottom line: 6v6 increases the fun factor, if only because you get more playing time and less waiting time (other factors not withstanding, such as kill counts/alter maps/builds/etc.).

People may like the 8v8--I like it too. It's why I do GvG. I even liked 8v8 HA with my guild/alliance, when we were actually playing it. Can the mechanics/maps of 6v6 be improved? Sure. Maybe it can even evolve to a point where the old 8v8 diehards may play it. Who knows? But I vote for 6v6 because it meets the objectives that the designers had in mind.

Jessyi · Feb 21, 2007, 12:25 AM // 00:25

I'm surprised so many people want 8v8 with the mechanics that existed a year ago. That crap stank. Overly defensive victory conditions, with would-be victors requiring loads of damage to win = for the huge loss. Step 1) Skip to halls, Step 2) Spike, Step 3) Profit?? The hell with that. The new victory conditions are waaaaaaay better with the major exception of (and oft stated) 3-way kill counts.

I don't like spike, and even though the victory conditions have changed, spike remains HUGELY viable in HA. Even the relic run and capture points in HoH (particularly cap points, since you have to move to cap instead of just spiking the runner as he approaches the centre) do about as much to discourage spikes (which generally travel as a team) as standard relic runs in unholy and sacred do. Besides with all the assassins running around now you can spike and split, so what difference does it make?

6v6 naturally limits the vast majority of spike teams, but that doesn't make 6v6 the best format. All things considered, it's probably the lesser of two evils, but that doesn't make it ideal. 8v8 is ideal because as many people have said, 10 classes and hundreds of old and new skills require some extra utility that you can get out of an 8 man team. Of course, most HA teams in typical sublimely idiotic fashion will simply use the 8 man team to create a spike. And why shouldn't they? That behavior is rewarded.

An 8 man team however allows for alot of potential strategies that COULD be used in HA to go to waste under the current meta. Additional support on relic runs and cap points/murderball would be superb but HA favors more...simplistic strategies. The simple fact however is that the size of maps and the movement constraints put on a team because of the map sizes plays a huge role in what teams bring to HA. It's one of the larger reasons why HA is nothing like GvG, and why HA tactics survive despite thier simplicity. I don't know if ANet can do anything about that. I mean, I guess they could nerf every possible spike skill in the game, but that would merely make a large body of skills unuseable and 2) people would find another way to spike anyways. More and more I get to thinking that HA is an invention that just can never work ideally. It is for that reason that I haven't cast my vote yet on this poll: every choice seems wrong.

-Jessyi

PS. I didn't mean for this to become a discourse on why I hate spike so much, though it kinda-sorta sounds that way. The overall message that should be taken from my post is that 8v8 provides utility that 6v6 doesn't, however that utility is generally forfeited in favor of more-of-the-same in the form of extra spikers, extra assassins, extra elementalists, etc.

Tela · Feb 21, 2007, 12:44 AM // 00:44

keep 8v8, adjust the skills accordingly,remove kill count, make hoh king of hill only. thanks

6v6: not enough variety, makes monking blow. nothing but gimmick bs builds.
Skills: rit spike is a joke why wasnt this nerfed for the 8v8 test? fix soul reaping please.
killcount: There is no fair way to assign points. REMOVE ASAP.
hoh: imho used to be fun when it was about capping, not who brought the wards/water hexes.

And finally. Please fix the pullback lag introduced with a previous update,instead of ignoring it. and if you are unable to do so please remove all relic maps please.

good day

Vanquisher · Feb 21, 2007, 12:50 AM // 00:50

I strongly prefer 8 vs. 8. It's a format that the game is balanced around, as Izzy has said himself, and it allows for a decent amount of pressure to unsettle the spike teams that play. People who complain about 8 vs. 8 feeding Ritualist spike don't realise it's just as effective when run in 6 vs. 6, if not moreso. The loss of 2 offensive characters from the downgrade in party size means you can't put out enough decent pressure to stop the spike team, you can't interrupt them to a decent degree, whatever. They already pack plenty of defense, and in the case of Ritualist spike it's much more a balance issue.

However, mechanics such as 3-way kill counts need to be looked at. The way it was set up, the intention was that the team leading would be ganged up on, however this just isn't the case at all. Teams will attack whatever is most likely to get them kills, so they're going to attack teams with weaker defense in hopes of outkilling the final team.

One final thing to say - 6 vs. 6 at prime time has 3 international districts at max. During the 8 vs. 8 weekend, there were often 4, occaisionally 5 at the same time. When people voted for 6 vs. 6, it was because of the fast paced Builds that were seen during the preview, however they obviously forgot that that weekend was also about the double fame that everyone recieved.